Discussion {{'2010-03-05T07:00:04-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}

Openletter to Newegg regarding Verified by VISA

I hate being accosted by verified by visa. I'm not going to sign up for it and it's impossible to complete newegg pruchases in the usual way.I love your store, but I'm resigned to complaining about this every time I make a purchase. There needs to be some way to opt out of verified by visa. I'm never going to sign......

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Written on {{'2018-04-18T04:35:18-07:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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Once you login to your account, you could view your account details from there on. https://citicardslogin.us We are in no other way affiliated with CitiCards proceed reviewing for login access. 
Written on {{'2012-02-19T15:14:06-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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[quote user="d0s4d1"]

I'm with you on this!!! Not only Verified by Visa, but also MasterCard SecureCode, which is essentially the same thing.

I ordered two hard drives from NewEgg and my order was delayed by two days because of these "fraud-prevention" schemes.

Don't get me wrong, I support security, but my security gained by using NoScript & Flashblock is greater than the security gained through Verified by Visa or MasterCard SecureCode, because they are so poorly implemented. 

 

This whole problem could be resolved easily:

1) MasterCard & Visa publicly post the domain names used for the verification process, so users can whitelist the domains in their script-blocking utilities. 

2) NewEgg & other vendors take responsibility to post these domain names at the beginning of the check-out process, when it is still safe to refresh the page. This allows users a chance to whitelist all the domains and then check-out successfully. 

 

That's it! It's easy, but NewEgg is not taking ownership of the issue or referring me to any productive contact at Visa or MasterCard. So who should we contact, and how can all of us who hate this crap join forces to get this changed???

Sincerely,

~Open to Ideas

[/quote]i seriously doubt ur order was held up for 2 days for Visa to verify,, i order all the time and the VISA verification takes maybe 10 seconds, no problem on my end,,

@ NeroFiddles,, u have taken more time to complain about *fraud prevention* than it takes to verify an order,, maybe it would be best for u to purchase at an e-tailer without fraud prevention,, then u can come back to NewEgg,,,,oh, wait a minute, u won't be able to come back to the Egg to purchase cuz someone got ur info and emptied ur account of all ur money [:O]

Written on {{'2012-02-19T14:59:45-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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I'm with you on this!!! Not only Verified by Visa, but also MasterCard SecureCode, which is essentially the same thing.

I ordered two hard drives from NewEgg and my order was delayed by two days because of these "fraud-prevention" schemes.

Don't get me wrong, I support security, but my security gained by using NoScript & Flashblock is greater than the security gained through Verified by Visa or MasterCard SecureCode, because they are so poorly implemented. 

 

This whole problem could be resolved easily:

1) MasterCard & Visa publicly post the domain names used for the verification process, so users can whitelist the domains in their script-blocking utilities. 

2) NewEgg & other vendors take responsibility to post these domain names at the beginning of the check-out process, when it is still safe to refresh the page. This allows users a chance to whitelist all the domains and then check-out successfully. 

 

That's it! It's easy, but NewEgg is not taking ownership of the issue or referring me to any productive contact at Visa or MasterCard. So who should we contact, and how can all of us who hate this crap join forces to get this changed???

Sincerely,

~Open to Ideas

Written on {{'2011-01-28T03:43:51-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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   This is a copy of the second complaint I recently sent to the Federal Trade Commission, a complaint which specifically addresses to the objectionable telemarketing practices associated with the Verified by VISA program.

*******************************


   Here's a background summary of the Verified By VISA problem:

(1) I refuse to be coerced into accepting a new Verified By VISA user agreement, which appears designed to chip away at the rights and protections I currently enjoy under my existing federally-regulated credit card user agreement.

(2) I strongly disagree with the claimed "security" benefits of having users type even more personal information into popup windows which appear, in order to carry out credit card transactions online. (It conditions users to become victims of future phishes, and doesn't change the nature of the problem.)

   Last Saturday, I made an ordinary credit card purchase, with a vendor I've done business with before. The merchandise was under $100, and was to be shipped to my normal billing address --a mundane transaction. The payment was instantly approved and processed, and, seconds later, I received an email confirmation to that effect.

   The following day, I received an email confirming the merchandise was shipped. Great.
 
   On Monday, TWO days after I placed this order, I received a phone call from a call center located in India, claiming to be Chase VISA "fraud prevention." I received this phone call for ONE reason: because I choose not to respond to Verified by VISA popup windows, should one appear in front of me at the end of an online transaction.

   Because these calls happen AFTER payments have been approved and processed, it's an intentional misrepresentation of facts, to claim the calls have anything to do with "account security," or "fraud prevention." In fact, the SOLE purpose of calling customers in this way is to aggressively promote the Verified By VISA program, and to pressure customers into enrolling. It's an aggressive and offensive form of telemarketing. It tells customers, if you do not join the Verified by VISA program, when that option is presented to you on a web site, you will receive harassing phone calls.

   Further, because I previously told them, in a clear, unmistakable fashion, that I will NOT be participating in the Verified By VISA program, and to STOP calling me on matters related to the Verified By VISA program, that makes their calls a violation of US telemarketing rules.

   The calls constitute overly aggressive marketing tactics relating to their Verified By VISA program. I told them to stop, and they will not stop.
Written on {{'2010-05-03T15:31:11-07:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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[quote user="Kardon"]

My personal belief is that the egg was forced to do this which is why the VBV page shows up but doesn't actually do anything.


[/quote]

 

It's a carrot and stick. VISA tells merchants that, so long as they cooperate, and allow the VbV features to appear on their web site, they will be indemnified 100% against losses due to credit card fraud. I understand how that's a generous incentive, and probably represents a million dollars per year to a large company like Newegg. However, Newegg needs to recognize that VISA will very likely only offer such an incentive during the period in which they're attempting to expand the VbV program. (Heck, VISA probably loses money on it.) And, once they get enough merchants to conform to the new practice, they will just change the deal again.
 
It's exactly this type of excessive influence VISA/MasterCard has on the market that makes it anti-competitive.
 
If VISA's goal were solely to reduce losses due to credit card fraud, their pressure tactics wouldn't be quite so offensive. However, VISA also seems to be using the terms of the VbV contract as a ploy designed to chip away at the protections credit card users already enjoy under federal law, at least in the minds of consumers.
 
Any customer using a credit card on a web site already has credit card user agreement which is regulated by federal law. They are already protected against losses due to credit card fraud, for any amount exceeding the $50. However, in spite of what their current rights are, VISA wants to force all customers to agree to a new contract, one in which they accept "sole responsibility" for "all activity" which occurs using the security information they provide in order to configure VbV. Why would anybody agree to that? For one thing, it doesn't reflect the reality of how security works online.
 
In short, VISA is attempting to use their leverage over the marketplace, to in order to pressure all online merchants into configuring their web sites in such a way that those merchants, in turn, help coerce their own customers into accepting a new VISA user agreement which is not in their best interest. If it would be illegal for VISA to use these coercive tactics directly, it's illegal for them to do so through intermediaries.
 
To the extent Newegg seems to be willing to take their thirty pieces of silver in order to help inconvenience and screw over their own customers, I won't reward it --"Gee, Newegg. You want to pretend to hold my order hostage, to try to force me to agree to new, unfavorable terms affecting my credit card? Really?"
 

 

Written on {{'2010-05-03T11:50:26-07:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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I'm not sure if you guys have ever worked in the CC industry or know how powerful visa is. But i can tell you Visa is a lot like the apple App store.

If they tell you to add a VBV page you add a VBV page, That's it. If you piss them off you are very likely to lose your cc merchant account. Will they say it that bluntly? No. They will hit you with some jargon like "terminated due to unwillingness to take measures to prevent CC fraud, blah blah blah.

My personal belief is that the egg was forced to do this which is why the VBV page shows up but doesn't actually do anything. You can close it, put in the right info, or put in false info and your order still goes through regardless. This allows the egg to do what their processing bank tells them without really hurting its customers. It wouldn't be very hard to make the VBV page actually work if the egg wanted to. And given the totally unneeded recent redesign of the site I would say the web team probably doesn't have anything much better to do.

Written on {{'2010-05-03T11:02:15-07:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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[quote user="jettero"]

There needs to be some way to opt out of verified by visa. I'm never going to sign up for it and simply closing my browser when I'm accosted by the signup is not a satisfactory option. I never have the pleasure of completing the sale in the usual way.

Please fix this. It's been more than a year and I know I'm not the only one to complain.

[/quote]


This is a copy of the complaint I sent to the Federal Trade Commission, in which I named VISA, the issuing bank, and Newegg, as the parties responsible for the objectionable, anti-consumer tactics which appear in the Newegg shopping cart.

I now also look for alternatives to Newegg, when shopping for computer components, simply to avoid the obnoxious VbV tactics which Newegg allows to persist in their checkout process --showing a total disregard for loyal customers who (correctly) choose not to sign up for VbV.

*******************************

I had an unpleasant experience using my VISA card online recently which I feel represents anti-consumer coercive tactics, and collusion.
 
VISA developed the 3D Secure protocol, a scheme within which users can configure additional passwords and user information to (ostensibly) improve the security of web-based transactions. By sharing this technology with competitors (e.g. Mastercard), and coordinating methods with them, VISA hoped to multiply the pressure they could exert, in terms of forcing reluctant merchants and customers to adopt inconvenient and intrusive new practices.
 
The actual security benefits of 3D Secure (AKA Verified by VISA and Mastercard SecureCode) are debatable, and probably temporary. In the scheme, customers are encouraged to type even more personal information, into more windows that happen to pop up in front of them (from unfamiliar domains). Rather than being educated, millions of customers are being conditioned to become victims of future phishes.
 
My biggest objection is to the Verified By Visa (VbV) user agreement, combined with the obnoxious 3D Secure feature known as "Activation During Shopping" (ADS).
 
The Verified By Visa Terms of Use contract states, 
 
"You are solely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your password, registration data and other verification information established by you with Verified by Visa, and all activities that occur using your password, registration data or other verification information supplied to or established by you with Verified by Visa."
 
This misrepresents basic facts. Some of the largest security breaches happen due to a vendor's own server getting hacked, or due to the activities of a dishonest employee. The VbV data is designed to be entered into web forms, and sent off to other servers. After a user does this even one time, there is no possible way for them to control how that information is used.
 
Further, I feel my protection against fraudulent credit card transactions lies within the Fair Credit Billing Act, so I am not going to sign a new agreement which implies illegal activities will become my sole responsibility.
 
Yet this is what VISA is trying to force customers to do, by way of the coercive "Activation During Shopping" (ADS) tactic.
 
With ADS, when a customer submits credit card information from the shopping cart of a participating merchant, the VbV server for the issuing bank is allowed to reply back inside an invisible "iframe," so the window appears to originate from the merchant's web site.
 
Normally, this window would provide a place for people enrolled in the VbV program to enter additional login information, but under ADS, these windows are designed to be as obnoxious as possible, in order to force people to apply to the VbV program.
 
The window states, in no uncertain terms, the order will not be completed until the user enters a VbV password, or applies to VbV, and then blocks the user from proceeding further.
 
In fact, this is a lie. Merchants retain the right to accept orders without the VbV information (and usually do). Merchants allow the deceptive VbV prompts to appear, only because of the compensation they receive.
 
To top it off, in many cases, failing to fill in the requested VbV information results in the customer receiving a harassing phone call from the VISA fraud department, in spite of the fact they already know which users are not currently enrolled in VbV. I find this to be an entirely unacceptable coercive tactic.

Written on {{'2010-03-09T08:14:07-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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[quote user="OmniNegro"]

Do not be upset at Newegg for it, it is the CC companies that are doing this.

[/quote]

 

I understand what you're saying, but it is spurious.  I do not have this problem at google checkout, amazon.com, tiger direct, woot, blah blah blah blah blah.  The only place I'm accosted by verified by visa (with absolutely no way to abort the signup) is on newegg.

As a consequence, if I can buy a product elsewhere, I often do so and that makes me very sad.  I'd rather just buy everything at newegg.  You can tell I'd rather shop at newegg because I'm taking the time to make this effort.

Written on {{'2010-03-09T05:39:47-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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I am sorry you do not like it. I dislike it as well. But I understand they have no choice. If they just stop using it then every time some jerk uses a stolen card to order stuff and they have to talk to the CC company they will hear something to the effect of "If you were using our verification program this would not have happened..." and then they will be stuck for weeks if not months fighting the CC companies before things get resolved.

Do not be upset at Newegg for it, it is the CC companies that are doing this.

I blame Visa. They are jerks.

But even as I say that, I remember the last dozen or so orders I made all went through that terrible verification junk. One of them I had the same issue with NoScript as DarrellJ88 and it failed. The order was canceled. I had to reorder. But it was only a minor inconvenience.

Thank you Newegg, and shame on you Visa.

Written on {{'2010-03-09T04:35:56-08:00' | moment:'fromNow'}}
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[quote user="Kardon"]

Just close the verified by visa window.

[/quote]

 Just close the window is their canned response.  It is not acceptable and it is the reason for the open letter.   I've been just closing the window for a year or more now and I'm tired of it.  I want the pleasure of actually completing the sale in the normal fashion again.  I make sure to contact them every time because I love newegg, not because I hate it.   They take me seriously, but the web-devs seem to resist fixing it... I do not know why.

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